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[DPRG] RE: DPRGlist Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12

Subject: [DPRG] RE: DPRGlist Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12
From: David Steele (Carr) David.Steele at halliburton.com
Date: Thu Nov 18 12:11:52 CST 2010

Jose,

One thing to take into consideration is the size of parts that you want to make.

Check the envelop (or X, Y, and Z-axis movement) to be sure it is large enough to make the parts you want to make.

A couple recommendations are a Sherline and Taig CNC mills.

Sherline
http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm

Taig (AKA MicroProto)
http://www.microproto.com/

I have a Taig CNC mill (stepper motor version) which I purchased through Nicholas Carter; I had a few questions after purchasing my machine.  He was very helpful and quick in answering my questions.  There is a "Dealers" link as well; notice that there is a dealer in Frisco.

Nicholas Carter
25360 Oak Lane
Philomath, OR 97370
541-929-6006
"felice at casco.net"
"www.cartertools.com"

I use Mach 3 software which is fairly easy to use.  I have imported dxf files (2-1/2 Dimension AutoCAD) and 3D files before with little effort.

http://www.microproto.com/software.htm

http://machsupport.com/


Standard Disclaimer: I don't have any financial interest in any of the above companies, blah, blah, blah.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: dprglist-bounces at dprg.org [mailto:dprglist-bounces at dprg.org] On Behalf Of dprglist-request at dprg.org
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:00 PM
To: dprglist at dprg.org
Subject: DPRGlist Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Stuart Stegall)
   2. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Paul Burrell)
   3. RE: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Bob Jordan)
   4. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Stuart Stegall)
   5. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Paul Burrell)
   6. RE: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Quinones, Jose)
   7. RE: Looking for a CNC Mill? (ed at okerson.com)
   8. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Sluggy!)
   9. Re: Looking for a CNC Mill? (Dave Hylands)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:25:30 -0600
From: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTin_Oo9U4BDEC_v3rkEaPCch=fETz+knW0GTpsJs at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> I think at some point in time I learned about these not ridiculously
> expensive (AKA $5K to $10K) CNC routers/engravers/mills which could be used
> to generate 3D parts.
>
>
>
> Of course when I google for this topic I get a terazillion links on all the
> industrial CNC equipment not meant to be enjoyed by hobbyists like you and
> me, unless your rich uncle expires and by pure luck leaves the entire
> inheritance to your name. I don?t even have a rich uncle, so any reference
> to an economical CNC router/mill/engraver will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Me and a work buddy are looking for a machine good enough to make aluminum
> panels. Not needed to build race car pistons or golf clubs. Thanks for your
> input!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> JIQ
>
> _______________________________________________
> DPRGlist mailing list
> DPRGlist at dprg.org
> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>
>

Engraving is somewhat a totally different market from milling and CNC routing.

Ultimately you have to pick one. :D

What build area do you need?  There's quite a few hobbyist grade
units, plus there's always the DIY version.  I currently have a CNC
router that does about 4'x8' but it's not particularly fast and it
cost me $1200 or so to build (plus maybe 50 hours of build time.)



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:57:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Burrell <peburrell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>, "Quinones, Jose"
        <jquinones at ti.com>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID: <963603.34523.qm at web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I agree that there are some differences in engraving and CNC, but you can make a
CNC do engraving.???? You will need to add a high speed router that mounts into
the mill.???? This can be done by creating a belt driven shaft tied to a
variable/high ??speed router.??????Depending upon the amount of depth control you
might want to maintain,??you might want to make the Z floating with respect the Z
motor.???? Use a spring loaded mount with a??smooth plate on the material to keep
from??messing up the??engraved material.?? ?? At that point you are limited by the
size of the X/Y range of the mill.???? I was fortunate enough to get a mill that
has a 38in X 12in motion area.?????? The 12in Y travel is harder to find on
mills.???? There are several out there that??are 9in Y travel.??

Check into auctions.???? I managed to pick mine up for $1500.???? Had to have it
transported so that was an additional expense, but was very happy with what I
got.

Paul



----- Original Message ----
From: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>
To: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 1:25:30 PM
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> I think at some point in time I learned about these not ridiculously
> expensive (AKA $5K to $10K) CNC routers/engravers/mills which could be used
> to generate 3D parts.
>
>
>
> Of course when I google for this topic I get a terazillion links on all the
> industrial CNC equipment not meant to be enjoyed by hobbyists like you and
> me, unless your rich uncle expires and by pure luck leaves the entire
> inheritance to your name. I don???t even have a rich uncle, so any reference
> to an economical CNC router/mill/engraver will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Me and a work buddy are looking for a machine good enough to make aluminum
> panels. Not needed to build race car pistons or golf clubs. Thanks for your
> input!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> JIQ
>
> _______________________________________________
> DPRGlist mailing list
> DPRGlist at dprg.org
> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>
>

Engraving is somewhat a totally different market from milling and CNC routing.

Ultimately you have to pick one. :D

What build area do you need??? There's quite a few hobbyist grade
units, plus there's always the DIY version.?? I currently have a CNC
router that does about 4'x8' but it's not particularly fast and it
cost me $1200 or so to build (plus maybe 50 hours of build time.)

_______________________________________________
DPRGlist mailing list
DPRGlist at dprg.org
http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist







------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:45:30 -0600
From: "Bob Jordan" <rljordan at airmail.net>
Subject: RE: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: "'Stuart Stegall'" <keltor at keltor.org>,     "'Quinones, Jose'"
        <jquinones at ti.com>
Cc: 'dprglist' <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID: <000c01cb86b1$85074290$8f15c7b0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Cool sounding project! Do you have pictures up somewhere. Any info on the
electronics and hardware?
Bob Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: dprglist-bounces at dprg.org [mailto:dprglist-bounces at dprg.org] On Behalf
Of Stuart Stegall
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:26 PM
To: Quinones, Jose
Cc: dprglist
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> I think at some point in time I learned about these not ridiculously
> expensive (AKA $5K to $10K) CNC routers/engravers/mills which could be
used
> to generate 3D parts.
>
>
>
> Of course when I google for this topic I get a terazillion links on all
the
> industrial CNC equipment not meant to be enjoyed by hobbyists like you and
> me, unless your rich uncle expires and by pure luck leaves the entire
> inheritance to your name. I don't even have a rich uncle, so any reference
> to an economical CNC router/mill/engraver will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Me and a work buddy are looking for a machine good enough to make aluminum
> panels. Not needed to build race car pistons or golf clubs. Thanks for
your
> input!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> JIQ
>
> _______________________________________________
> DPRGlist mailing list
> DPRGlist at dprg.org
> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>
>

Engraving is somewhat a totally different market from milling and CNC
routing.

Ultimately you have to pick one. :D

What build area do you need?  There's quite a few hobbyist grade
units, plus there's always the DIY version.  I currently have a CNC
router that does about 4'x8' but it's not particularly fast and it
cost me $1200 or so to build (plus maybe 50 hours of build time.)

_______________________________________________
DPRGlist mailing list
DPRGlist at dprg.org
http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:54:56 -0600
From: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: Paul Burrell <peburrell at yahoo.com>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTikbswgwbgLDkg=UXUTTbnD3F18SaLpVGxnmb-=G at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

$1500 for a CNC mill? or just for a Manual Mill?

38" x 12" x/y - That's a like 3/4ton machine.

For my CNC router, I originally followed:
http://buildyourcnc.com/blackFoot48v40.aspx

I'm not using rollerchain for my long axis though.  I'm using threaded
rods (1/2" for x/y, 1/4" for z)

There's a lot of trade offs, first you just have how big the machine
is and what it's made out of.  Smaller aluminum or wood based machines
are generally not going to be able to deal with much deflection, so
you won't be carving helmets out of T6 aluiminum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foXmB-ADYY

There's also how quick you will burn out the motor driving the cutting
tools, which is a real issue in using routers or something else
"cheap" like that.  There's also the accuracy of the CNC motion
equipment and it is much harder then a lot of people give it credit.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:32:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Burrell <peburrell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID: <373101.32471.qm at web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Yes, it is a CNC mill, not a CNC router or manual mill.? About a 1 1/2 ton
machine.?? Really solid.?? Bought it more for metal cutting, not wood cutting.??
It included a controller, but didn't like it.?? Pulled it off and retrofitted
with a emc2 pc based controller.???




----- Original Message ----
From: Stuart Stegall <keltor at keltor.org>
To: Paul Burrell <peburrell at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>; dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 3:54:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?

$1500 for a CNC mill? or just for a Manual Mill?

38" x 12" x/y - That's a like 3/4ton machine.

For my CNC router, I originally followed:
http://buildyourcnc.com/blackFoot48v40.aspx

I'm not using rollerchain for my long axis though.? I'm using threaded
rods (1/2" for x/y, 1/4" for z)

There's a lot of trade offs, first you just have how big the machine
is and what it's made out of.? Smaller aluminum or wood based machines
are generally not going to be able to deal with much deflection, so
you won't be carving helmets out of T6 aluiminum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foXmB-ADYY

There's also how quick you will burn out the motor driving the cutting
tools, which is a real issue in using routers or something else
"cheap" like that.? There's also the accuracy of the CNC motion
equipment and it is much harder then a lot of people give it credit.







------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:08:47 -0600
From: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>
Subject: RE: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID:
        <7B4574D56E4ADF438756313E9A172A87C405AA4F at dlee01.ent.ti.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hi Group,

I already built my CNC machine, but I don't think this thing is going to work very well. However, since so many people seem to have gone with this route, let me ask then:

1. What CAM SW should I go with?

I am using MACH3 on my PC and the machine "works". There are quite a bit of unaccuracies which is why I was considering buying a real machine. But maybe my machine can be made to work if I were to find the motivation to continue the project.

Unfortunately, MACH3 comes with CHEAPO-CAM or, LAZY-CAM, which seems to me is virtually worthless. I mean is free, so what can we expect? If I want to do 3D stuff, lazy cam will not be it. If I want to do 2D stuff then it should be enough. But I want the 3D!

I do not have hundreds of dollars to toss into mid air in the hopes that the junky piece of crap I built is going to work, so I am not considering expending any money, if possible.

What do you guys recommend?

Also, let me take advantage of this opportunity to ask about the router. What you guys are saying is that I should transform the router into a turret with a belt so the motor is not driven out to kingdom come? The problem with this aspect of the project is that there is very little info out there on how to achieve it. I am actually thinking is not that easy at all! Hopefully I am wrong...

As always, thanks for your input!

JIQ

JIQ

________________________________________
From: Stuart Stegall [keltor at keltor.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:25 PM
To: Quinones, Jose
Cc: dprglist
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> I think at some point in time I learned about these not ridiculously
> expensive (AKA $5K to $10K) CNC routers/engravers/mills which could be used
> to generate 3D parts.
>
>
>
> Of course when I google for this topic I get a terazillion links on all the
> industrial CNC equipment not meant to be enjoyed by hobbyists like you and
> me, unless your rich uncle expires and by pure luck leaves the entire
> inheritance to your name. I don?t even have a rich uncle, so any reference
> to an economical CNC router/mill/engraver will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Me and a work buddy are looking for a machine good enough to make aluminum
> panels. Not needed to build race car pistons or golf clubs. Thanks for your
> input!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> JIQ
>
> _______________________________________________
> DPRGlist mailing list
> DPRGlist at dprg.org
> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>
>

Engraving is somewhat a totally different market from milling and CNC routing.

Ultimately you have to pick one. :D

What build area do you need?  There's quite a few hobbyist grade
units, plus there's always the DIY version.  I currently have a CNC
router that does about 4'x8' but it's not particularly fast and it
cost me $1200 or so to build (plus maybe 50 hours of build time.)


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:46:44 -0600 (CST)
From: ed at okerson.com
Subject: RE: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: dprglist at dprg.org
Message-ID:
        <51156.173.74.128.214.1290091604.squirrel at mail.okerson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Jose,

Have a look at EMC2 for software to drive the machine.

 http://www.linuxcnc.org/

You can make your own high speed spindle pretty cheaply, Dave Kush has a
good article on how he built his at:

http://buildyouridea.com/cnc/spindle_05/spindle_05.html

Be sure to look at his other CNC projects to see just how much can be done:

http://buildyouridea.com/cnc.html

Ed Okerson

> Hi Group,
>
> I already built my CNC machine, but I don't think this thing is going to
> work very well. However, since so many people seem to have gone with this
> route, let me ask then:
>
> 1. What CAM SW should I go with?
>
> I am using MACH3 on my PC and the machine "works". There are quite a bit
> of unaccuracies which is why I was considering buying a real machine. But
> maybe my machine can be made to work if I were to find the motivation to
> continue the project.
>
> Unfortunately, MACH3 comes with CHEAPO-CAM or, LAZY-CAM, which seems to me
> is virtually worthless. I mean is free, so what can we expect? If I want
> to do 3D stuff, lazy cam will not be it. If I want to do 2D stuff then it
> should be enough. But I want the 3D!
>
> I do not have hundreds of dollars to toss into mid air in the hopes that
> the junky piece of crap I built is going to work, so I am not considering
> expending any money, if possible.
>
> What do you guys recommend?
>
> Also, let me take advantage of this opportunity to ask about the router.
> What you guys are saying is that I should transform the router into a
> turret with a belt so the motor is not driven out to kingdom come? The
> problem with this aspect of the project is that there is very little info
> out there on how to achieve it. I am actually thinking is not that easy at
> all! Hopefully I am wrong...
>
> As always, thanks for your input!
>
> JIQ
>
> JIQ
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Stuart Stegall [keltor at keltor.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:25 PM
> To: Quinones, Jose
> Cc: dprglist
> Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think at some point in time I learned about these not ridiculously
>> expensive (AKA $5K to $10K) CNC routers/engravers/mills which could be
>> used
>> to generate 3D parts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course when I google for this topic I get a terazillion links on all
>> the
>> industrial CNC equipment not meant to be enjoyed by hobbyists like you
>> and
>> me, unless your rich uncle expires and by pure luck leaves the entire
>> inheritance to your name. I don?t even have a rich uncle, so any
>> reference
>> to an economical CNC router/mill/engraver will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Me and a work buddy are looking for a machine good enough to make
>> aluminum
>> panels. Not needed to build race car pistons or golf clubs. Thanks for
>> your
>> input!
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> JIQ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DPRGlist mailing list
>> DPRGlist at dprg.org
>> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>>
>>
>
> Engraving is somewhat a totally different market from milling and CNC
> routing.
>
> Ultimately you have to pick one. :D
>
> What build area do you need?  There's quite a few hobbyist grade
> units, plus there's always the DIY version.  I currently have a CNC
> router that does about 4'x8' but it's not particularly fast and it
> cost me $1200 or so to build (plus maybe 50 hours of build time.)
> _______________________________________________
> DPRGlist mailing list
> DPRGlist at dprg.org
> http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist
>




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:03:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Sluggy! <sluggy9912 at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: dprglist at dprg.org
Message-ID: <987428.96823.qm at web180309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

----- Original Message ----
From: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>


>> I mean is free, so what can we expect?

One has to pay dearly for Microsoft Office, especially once you've also paid for
Windows or MacOS, and *it* still sucks... :)

Beyond this one barb, however, I will save the commercial development vs open
source development debate for another day...

>> What do you guys recommend?

Let me first say that I do not have any actual hands-on experience with these
machines. I have, however, done quite a lot of research into making my own
replacement and custom parts for this and other hobbies.

This collection seems to have a lot of promise...

http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cadcam.htm

Some are mildly crippled (no "save" option) versions of commercial packages, in
case you still want to pay for them... :)

An intriguing, yet far from free, alternative to cutting your own chips
is http://www.emachineshop.com/

I came very near having a few specific parts done by them, but finally chickened
out on price vs how bad I wanted them. Parts can very detailed and made from a
large catalog of materials and just about every machining process imaginable.
There is extensive online help in selecting appropriate processes for your
desired material and quantity. For example, making a flat 2D cut piece can be
cheaper cut with laser than with plasma, if the material is thin enough, but
plasma might make a better edge. The guides help you choose and prices are
updated as you make changes.

If you have a particularly clever or useful part, look into making a large
enough quantity to sell some and recover your investment :) The initial setup
for one part is the most expensive. The price each drops pretty quickly as you
make more units. One of the things I was looking into was going to cost about
$200 for the first unit, but 100 of them was about $300.

Sluggy!


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 09:52:30 -0800
From: Dave Hylands <dhylands at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DPRG] Looking for a CNC Mill?
To: "Quinones, Jose" <jquinones at ti.com>
Cc: dprglist <dprglist at dprg.org>
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTikSXuRiG=BZFu=BC6Lvf8QM25-GfiqtAzoz5=0B at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi JIQ,

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Quinones, Jose <jquinones at ti.com> wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I already built my CNC machine, but I don't think this thing is going to work very well. However, since so many people seem to have gone with this route, let me ask then:
>
> 1. What CAM SW should I go with?

I really like SheetCAM
<http://sheetcam.com/>

It works really well for what's commonly referred to as 2.5D (which is
what I do most of the time).

I documented the overall process that I use:
<http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/CNC/Making-A-Part/>

> I am using MACH3 on my PC and the machine "works". There are quite a bit of unaccuracies which is why I was considering buying a real machine. But maybe my machine can be made to work if I were to find the motivation to continue the project.
>
> Unfortunately, MACH3 comes with CHEAPO-CAM or, LAZY-CAM, which seems to me is virtually worthless. I mean is free, so what can we expect? If I want to do 3D stuff, lazy cam will not be it. If I want to do 2D stuff then it should be enough. But I want the 3D!

For full blown 3D stuff (like machining a human face), then you may
want to consider MeshCAM
<http://www.grzsoftware.com/>

It works for 2.5D stuff as well, but it isn't very efficient for those
types of parts.

--
Dave Hylands
Shuswap, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
DPRGlist mailing list
DPRGlist at dprg.org
http://list.dprg.org/mailman/listinfo/dprglist


End of DPRGlist Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12
****************************************

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