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[DPRG] can can clarifications

Subject: [DPRG] can can clarifications
From: Karim Virani karim at bigthought.org
Date: Fri May 2 12:39:37 CDT 2014

Actually, my team is Iron Reign - by habit I only included the student names - but I'm actively helping them on this one. I should probably put my name in there too.  Also, we have 2 entries in there and one of them is just for fun - we don't plan to enter it in the rounds even though it could have a decent chance of winning.

Separately, though, 10 minutes is a very long time from a spectator's point of view. Even from my point of view.  Even when my robot is on the field. 

In FTC, each match is 2.5 minutes long and that seems just about right.  That includes a 30 second autonomous period followed by a 2 minute driver controlled period.  So FTC matches obviously benefit from a more active and efficient gameplay than can can does. So they can get the job done in 2.5 minutes.  Note that they could all score more points if the matches were longer - but it would have little effect on which robots move on. 

I don't recall the rationale by which the length of the match was extended.  I think it's doubled over last years duration.  It's probably too late for a substantive change to the rules now - we should be embargoed on major changes.

But I would still ask a question of those competing:  Based on how your robot is doing now - Do you think the period between 5 minutes and 10 minutes is vital to fairly distinguish whether your robot is more competent at can can soccer than your likely opponents? My answer is no.

Even with an embargo, I think there is an opportunity to clarify the rules a bit.  I think we should encourage both teams to call the match short if they both agree it seems like no more progress is being made.  A team hoping to catch up would still be able to go the full 10 minutes. But maybe an automatic 5 minute cut off if the score is 0-0 at that time?

From: dprglist-bounces at dprg.org <dprglist-bounces at dprg.org> on behalf of David P. Anderson <davida at smu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 10:22 AM
To: paradug
Cc: dprglist at dprg.org
Subject: Re: [DPRG] can can clarifications

I noticed several of the teams haven't registered yet (John's, Jason's,
Karim's) so if we have 10 or 12 robots competing it's likely to take
more than the 3 hours allotted for the whole roborama, and parallel
competitions will almost certainly be required.  And parallel judges.
Be nice if we had a second cancan course... just thinking out loud.


On 05/01/2014 10:25 PM, paradug wrote:
> David,
>     We will run two of the competitions in parallel if required. We
> can stay later than 3:00 but I would like to finish about that time.
> Regards,
> Doug P.
> -----Original Message----- From: David Anderson
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 10:00 PM
> To: dprglist at dprg.org
> Subject: Re: [DPRG] can can clarifications
> I have a question as well.  The rules refer to the CanCan soccer as a
> double-elimination competition. That seems fair, so that the best and
> second best robot don't meet in the first round and the second best is
> then eliminated.
> According to Wikipedia, the number of rounds in a double-elimination
> competition is twice the number of contestants minus one.  So for the 8
> robots currently registered, thats (8x2)-1 = 15 rounds at 10 minutes per
> round is 150 minutes, 2 and 1/2 hours.  It's not clear that we have the
> Perot that long, as I understand there are other competitions (line
> following, mini-sumo) as well.   Do we have to be done by 3:00?
> dpa
> On 05/01/2014 02:17 PM, Karim Virani wrote:
>> Doug, I'd like to request some clarifications about can can:
>> The rules say can placement is up to the referee.  Does that mean it
>> can change for every round and won't be consistent for all
>> competitors?  Or will it be laid out and made consistent between
>> runs?  If so, how will the intended positions of the cans be marked?
>> Will there be an attempt to make the pattern symmetrical over the
>> half line? This is about fairness and accidental bias in the
>> placement of cans.
>> There is no language about assignment of goal ownership or switching
>> goals at some kind of halftime or between rounds.  In real soccer
>> this is an attempt to balance the effect of the sun and the weather.
>> At the Perot, this is a bank of windows that could adversely affect
>> competitors that are reliant on optical sensors of various kinds.  I
>> don't have a good suggestion for how to address this without over
>> complicating the rules - maybe somebody else has an idea or two.  I
>> wanted to at least acknowledge the highly asymmetric lighting of the
>> space which you can see in the photo in the rules, but really need to
>> be there to appreciate.  Last year the long access of the course was
>> set up parallel to the windows and this at least equalizes the field
>> somewhat.
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